US, IRAN, and Daniel 8 (from 2007)

The below is something I wrote in 2007. I have included most of the original teaching, eliminating a little historical context between the US and Iran like the Shah of Iran and the US involvement, and the resulting Islamic Revolution. It was not my general practice then and now to venture into politics nor world events in teaching the Bible. This is a special case.

Introduction

Periodically we’ll address current topics with prophecy because it gives us the opportunity to apply Biblical principles and see where we stand on truth.

Paul the Apostle instructed Timothy about being careful when giving authority to people.

Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure. 1 Timothy 5:22

This is a general principle. Let me make this a bit broader. Do not be hasty or draw conclusions too quickly and agree too easily because you might find yourself partially responsible with who you agree with. As a church and as a people we have strongholds in our thinking that permit us to agree with things that are contrary to God’s principles and purposes. When we align ourselves with the wrong kingdom, we give that kingdom authority in our lives by our agreement.

It is within this context that I want to talk about the U.S., Iran and Daniel 8.

Taking Sides

Step one is to determine not to take sides. The danger of taking sides is to participate in the sins of others. Look at a verse that we’ve reviewed before:

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. Ephesians 2:1-2 NIV

When we look at the present condition or the history of this world, we should not forget that the enemy dominates the atmosphere. Assume then that everything and everybody has been compromised with the “possible” exception of the children of God. Possible means that it is possible for the children of God to escape or resist the domination of the enemy, but it is no guarantee. These teachings are geared toward helping you. However, those that are not children of God have no chance until they bring someone into their life that can usurp the existing rule of the enemy. There is only one person who can do that, Jesus, the Son of God.

So, assume there are no acceptable sides to take, and any side will be sharing in the “sins of others” and aligning yourself withthe wrong kingdom. This is the danger and the error of Christian Nationalism so prevalent in America today. I hope to do a separate study on this topic at a future date.

We can understand a little more about God’s view in taking sides by looking again at Joshua and Jericho. We last looked at Joshua and Jericho in the study called A Bartimaeus Generation. That was because Jesus had healed Bartimaeus in Jericho, and the setting was important to the study. Revisiting Jericho for another moment.

Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, “Are you for us or for our enemies?”

“Neither,” he replied, “but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come.” Joshua 5:13-14

Notice how the angel of the Lord replies when Joshua asks whose side he is on. Joshua was expecting that the angel would be on his side, because Joshua had been instructed by the Lord on what to do. The angel still says neither. He only serves God’s interests. Now the Lord wants us as the church to get to this place. Anything else compromises our voice and authority and brings confusion to those searching for truth. Again, whenever we see where we need to be we need to ask the Holy Spirit to help us get there.

Is War Between Iran and the U.S. Inevitable?

Through the comments of the media, the current U.S. administration as well as some European countries, it seems that still another war is on the horizon. As believers in Christ, we need to pay attention. We cannot just go about our business oblivious to the issues of the world when people are really suffering and dying.

We must wonder if the volume of violence that we see simulated in movies and television has affected our conscience and created a numbness and indifference to real suffering and real death in the world. Where do you think God’s heart is in all this?

Part of Paul’s prayers for the Philippians is:

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, Philippians 1:9-10 NIV

The goal he says is to be pure and blameless so he prays that their love will abound in knowledge and depth of insight. I hope that’s clear. The Lord is interested in expanding our love with knowledge and depth of insight. This prayer is just as critical for us as it was for the Philippians almost 2,000 years ago. So, the goal of this study is the goal of all my studies, helping us see where we are and where we need to go and to tune our thoughts and our prayers accordingly.

Daniel 8

There are several valid reasons for dislike between these countries to the extent that war seems almost inevitable. Does the Bible speak prophetically of a coming conflict between the U.S. and Iran?

Getting right to the text in Daniel 8:

1 In the third year of King Belshazzar’s reign, I, Daniel, had a vision, after the one that had already appeared to me. 2 In my vision I saw myself in the citadel of Susa in the province of Elam; in the vision I was beside the Ulai Canal.

Now Susa in Daniel’s time was the capital city of Persia. It remains a real city and is populated even to this day. So, Daniel had a vision that he was in Persia.

3 I looked up, and there before me was a ram with two horns, standing beside the canal, and the horns were long. One of the horns was longer than the other but grew up later. 4 I watched the ram as he charged toward the west and the north and the south. No animal could stand against him, and none could rescue from his power. He did as he pleased and became great.

Daniel saw a powerful ram with 2 horns. Here comes the goat.

5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between his eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground.

Daniel saw a goat with a prominent horn coming from the west from a far distance “without touching the ground.”  The phrase “without touching the ground” may nothave made sense to Daniel since he lived in the 6^th century B.C. However, it is something that would not alarm us.

The goat wins with irresistible power, and no one comes to the aide of the ram.

6 He came toward the two-horned ram I had seen standing beside the canal and charged at him in great rage. 7 I saw him attack the ram furiously, striking the ram and shattering his two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against him; the goat knocked him to the ground and trampled on him, and none could rescue the ram from his power.

Our goal then in understanding this prophecy is pretty straightforward.

1. When does this all take place?
2. Who is the ram?
3. Who is the goat?

If we continue to read, we get help in understanding this vision because an angel comes to Daniel and tries to explain it to him.

15 While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man. 16 And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.”

Daniel sees an angel and it shows by his expression.

17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. “Son of man,” he said to me, “understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.”

First thing to understand is that the vision concerns the “time of the end.” This means it is an end of time prophecy.

Again, the angel, Gabriel speaks.

19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end.

Again, the angel says that the vision concerns “the time of wrath” and “the appointed time of the end.” This second clarification should relieve any doubt about when this event occurs.

1. When the goat battles the ram that is a signal the end is near.

So, there it is. One of the key reasons we keep an eye on the goat and the ram is because their battle indicates the final countdown has begun. This battle is a trigger. When we see this trigger, we need to pray that we will survive these times.

Next, who is the ram? Again, the angel tells us.

20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia.

The ram then is Persia. The area of Media and Persia was renamed to Iran in1935. Media could include Iran and possibly Kurdistan. We could be safe in saying that this is Iran.

• The ram that was defeated is Iran.

Next, who is the goat? Again, the angel tells us.

21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between his eyes is the first king.

Okay, now it’s tricky. The shaggy goat is Greece. But what about the U.S.? How would you identify a nation that was not on the scene during Daniel’s time? Could you identify it by its precursor? Now if you do a tiny bit of research on Greece you will see that it is regarded as the foundation of western civilization. We can therefore say that the U.S. at this time is the pinnacle of western civilization. If you had to explain the U.S. to a man in the 6^th century B.C., you could identify the civilization by its seed which was Greece.

Okay but most of Europe owes its foundation to the Greek civilization as well. Why couldn’t it be the EU? That’s possible but here’s why I lean toward the U.S. Because Daniel states:

5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between his eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground.

The goat “came from the west crossing the whole earth.” The goat then is clear across the world to the west. The term “without touching the ground” would indicate by plane or an arial attack. This makes a very strong case for the U.S. strike against Iran.

• The goat represents the U.S.

Lastly remember Daniel is standing in Susa or Iran and witnesses the goat come from a great distance and destroy the ram. The location of this battle is in Iran.

Summary

I’m not trying to scare you. I want to say though that it seems that scripture indicates the U.S. will initiate an aerial attack on Iran and will be victorious. This could happen in this current administration or in a future one. When it happens, it could be an indication that the end of time has arrived. I just want you to be aware if this occurs in our lifetime.

If it occurs in my lifetime the first thing I will do is say: Lord is this the start of the end times? Lord is this what was prophesied in Daniel 8?

Could I be wrong? Absolutely. We know God hides things. We know that scribes that did nothing but study scripture have proven time and time again to be wrong. Notice that even when Daniel had the vision explained to him stated:

27 I, Daniel, was exhausted and lay ill for several days. Then I got up and went about the king’s business. I was appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding.

What God hides must be revealed, or we are helpless.

This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

1 Corinthians 1:12 NIV

Many conventional prophetic interpretations have thought that the goat was Alexander the Great, the Greek emperor, since he did defeat Persia at a later time. This interpretation can be true without negating the much later event. That’s just how tricky God is.

God can speak to both the present and the future with the exact same words. He can speak both figuratively and literally at the same time with the same words. Jesus said:

I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. John 5:25 NIV

For example, when Jesus spoke these words he was talking about people right then and there who were spiritually dead yet who would live because of their trust in him. He was also talking about the resurrection of those who had died before he walked the earth. This verse then speaks to both the present and the future to both the spiritually dead and the physically dead at the same time with the same words.

It is only after God reveals things do they become obvious. Paul talks about the concept of attaining salvation from God without having to follow the law. This too was hidden and the scribes never figured it out until God had revealed it.

For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

Romans 1:17 NIV

See the statement: “The righteous will live by faith” was recorded in the Old Testament in Habakkuk 2:4 but the scribes understood neither the relevance nor the immensity of that verse. It was hidden from them until God revealed it to Paul.

Conclusion – Why study this?

The purpose of studying prophecy is the same as the purpose of studying any part of the word of God – to tune our prayers and to tune our thinking. In this case we as a body need to be sober about the times. We need to look at things with a bit more knowledge and understanding. We need to be prepared for the time of the end whether it comes soon or much later.

The Lord wants to raise up a people that are ready when disaster strikes. When I say ready, I don’t mean physical preparation but spiritual. There will come a time when everybody, absolutely everybody, will be shaken because of what is happening. Many will fall away because events will not go as planned and surprises will abound.  Believers that are tied to this world will be devastated and many will be angry with God.

Only relatively few that are grounded in the trust of the Lord and who have a bit of understanding, will not be taken by surprise nor be devastated. These are the people that the Lord will be looking to use as lights in the darkness. May you become one of these.

 For the revelation awaits an appointed time;
       it speaks of the end
       and will not prove false.
       Though it linger, wait for it;
       it will certainly come and will not delay.

  “See, he is puffed up;
       his desires are not upright—
       but the righteous will live by his faith. Habakkuk 2:3-4 NIV

And.

Those who trust in the LORD are like Mount Zion, which cannot be shaken but endures forever. Psalm 125:1 NIV